This is spooky because it's like JAD: It means what if grandpa has a bad day? I mean that's a different kind of odds, but its DESTINY HARRIS: Hi, this is Destiny Harris. She was totally an oops kid. All rights reserved. Thanks to Frances Champagne and Michael Meany and Sam Kean, who writes about Paul Kammerer in his book, . ROBERT: That's interesting. And they had more. And when it came time to mate, the males and the females, they would mate in the water. That's a lot of people. ], [ARCHIVAL Clip, Daytime Talkshow: You get them $200 each, which they can spend on crack. [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Harris says her program, children requiring a caring community, or CRACK], [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Can prevent thousands of unwanted births to drug-addicted women. Where sound illuminates ideas, and the boundaries blur between science, philosophy, and human experience. ROBERT: According to Darwin, life and changes are ruled by chance. We inherited this beloved show that we first fell in love with as listeners. Not only that. You're obviously a great mom, but that feels cold to me. I tell you what I'm going to do though. SAM KEAN: You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? These people are paying millions of dollars to take care of your children!]. LATIF: This is Radiolab. We neuter them.". You dont really say it to yourself that way, but yeah. MICHAEL MEANEY: That's it. JAD: So then over the next 70 some odd years, Lamarck basically became the poster boy for, like, the big dumb idea, the idea that you want to believe in but that you know isn't true. The event that really sets this story in motion, the set of events, happened a few months after Barbara had brought Destiny home. He thought that you could kind of engineer societies by changing the environment. PEJK MALINOVSKI: It says "registrera", register. CARL ZIMMER: I know what I'll do, I'm going to set up a terrarium for them and I'm going to make it hot, really uncomfortably hot. Through all the training that we had to do and first aid, fingerprinted and had a background check done. We spay them. They have found very similar effects for smoking, for instance. When Kammerer published his results initially, a bunch of scientists immediately began to say "Wait a minute, hold on here, it would be nice if life was like that but life isn't like that. Then 275 words will cost you $ 10, while 3 hours will cost you $ 50. [chuckles], OLOV BYGREN: Yes, yes. So for Isaiah, being born was like just being cut off. Because, you know, that Ive got these two kids, right? Catch up with new episodes and hear classics from our archive. KARIN BORGKVIST LJUNG: Cancer. This assignment is from the free science education website Science Prof Online(ScienceProfOnline.com). I know! LATIF: Oh you said it so much more diplomatically. I mean, for one thing, Barbara's white and Destiny's black. What they decided to do first was to try to figure out which rat was which, which meant, interestingly, counting all the legs. Listen to the first three stories of the "Inheritance" Radiolab Podcast (Control + click on link to access podcast. But it failed. BARBARA HARRIS: With a child, they give you a whole folder full of information, tells you all about them. Filled with dozens of letters from women that she's paid. As to diabetes, it was a four-fold risk. Radiolab: From Tree to Shining Tree LISTEN Three guests: Suzanne Simard, a professor of forest ecology and teacher at the University of British Columbia, Jennifer Frazer, a science writer that has a blog called The Artful Amoeba, and Roy Halling, a mycologist. Mamaw was the one I'd come to see. She was thinking Can I offer these women money to use birth control? Baby, be careful. About 30 years ago-. I mean, when you look at the records, you don't see huge spikes in mortality. One-fourth? JAD: They all go down to the DNA, surround that methyl and just, pow! PAT: Like shed give the women a choice. We ended up talking to the guy who did the work. ROBERT: He was a born nurturer and he adored animals. ROBERT: That's Sam Kean again. Radiolab: Parasites Transcript For copyright reasons we can't provide a transcript of the WNYC Radiolab feature on parasites. Is that too old?" FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: This is real physical-chemical interaction between what's going on in the environment and what's going on with the DNA. Radiolab Society & Culture Science Latest Transcripts What Up Holmes? And these effects, in fact, were so strong that you could trace it to the grandfather. Even if it helps, it's horrifying. They didn't have grains. PAT: I asked Barbara about some of the things that she'd said because, to be totally honest, they kind of turn my stomach. SAM KEAN: And at a time when you're not making the best decisions anyway. ROBERT: Inheritance, what you can move on to the next generation and what you can't. I didn't see them as people. JAD: I think all parents do this, is that you slip into this Lamarckian delusion that JAD: What you do with your kids can somehow rewrite all of that. He stuffed himself silly; 9, 10, 11 years old, so he's a happy grandpa, you the grandson, you then would have. Michael and Frances looked inside the brains of these rats and what they saw was that the rats who had been licked a lot as babies, they had more stuff in their head. You just have to weigh it, is it worth it? BARBARA HARRIS: And I was a waitress, I worked for IHOP for over 30 years. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: You know, you've got all these chemicals around. LULU: So far. We are working to provide transcripts for as much of our programming as we can over time. I mean, the idea that they could be constrained by their DNA, that maybe one of us gave them a bit of DNA thats gonna hold them back? I agree with Lynn, that this program does perpetuate a stereotype. CARL ZIMMER: Well, there was an expert on reptiles named G. Kingsley Noble. JAD: Thanks to Frances Champagne and Michael Meany and Sam Kean, who writes about Paul Kammerer in his book, The Violinist's Thumb. I make a difference to her. Okay, you want to say bye? It's a very different kind of front line, where urgent work means moving slow, and time is marked out in tiny pre-planned steps. You know? And at first, it didn't go so well because, you know, if you're a land toad and you're trying to have sex in the water, it's kind of hard. I had everybody's abuse on my back and I didn't care how we said it, or how we did it. Life is hard.". Thats just the cold logic of Darwinian evolution. VERONICA ZIMMER: My name is Veronica Zimmer. I wonder. BARBARA HARRIS: Since birth. ROBERT: And rewrite the so-called rules of genetics. The little baby that we keep hearing in the background of everything. She asked my opinion and that's what I'm giving. I know I've been joking a lot in this interview, but I mean it with all that I am. SECTION I - Story 1 (Lamark, Krammerer & the Midwife Toads) 1. I mean, when you think of Kammerer, there was a report in science outlining a theory about how Kammerer's toads got these characteristics that invoked these epigenetic inheritance and imprinted genes and it made it plausible. But if you've got a mom who licks you. Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. They lived longer lives, something like 30 years on average. She asked my opinion and that's what I'm giving. MICHAEL MEANEY: So the great rat nightmare comes true where the females become their mothers. ROBERT: And they didn't have these on land? On the one hand, she says, immediately, cheques started arriving. You know, inside these cells, in the center, coiled up in little spools, is the DNA. JAD: I tell you what I'm going to do though. Yeah. PAT: Nobody's arguing that women should do drugs when they're pregnant. I'm almost done. So, the thought is, when those little boys in verkalix were really, really hungry, their hunger started a chemical process that reached all the way down to the DNA inside the boy's sperm. You have to look at one cage, say, are they licking? PAT: Yeah. Oh, that's a lot of potatoes. So yeah, she keeps me busy. And she says, one day, this idea just came to her. [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Barbara Harris's solution is simpler than anything else out there. Although, you know, sometimes that your grandfather's suffering helps you. PAT: Last I heard she was living on the streets in LA. [ARCHIVAL CLIP, toddler: Theres the moon.]. I mean, were not gonna do that ourselves. ], Like you said, when you were in your addiction like she is], I didn't say I'm God. Edward Condon Session III American Institute of Physics. Move on to the next cage yes, no? And at a time when you're not making the best decisions anyway. Sincerely, Jennifer.". CARL ZIMMER: He actually named his daughter Lacerta, which is a genus of lizard. ROBERT: Because there is more data, more information about the people of verkalix, going farther back into the past than you can find almost anywhere else on Earth. ROBERT: Cause we were talking to science writer, Carl Zimmer, and he told us that back in the early 1900s, this tension between Lamarck and Darwin got extra tense. ROBERT: But, this hour were gonna fight this sort of sad sack feeling of inevitability and impotence. It's just a mind crushing tedium. No, I've only had somebody call and say they regret that they didn't stay on birth control. PAT: And Barbara found herself returning to a thought she'd kind of always had. It would be wrong to think that they represent all women who use drugs while they're pregnant. DESTINY HARRIS: As you can see, I like to talk. Thats like, I mean, that seems like a thing that would be frightening. ROBERT: What a name, you've got to like this guy. Darwin's theory would have said, you know, 90% of the toads are going to die. Kammerer, for one, was sent off to work as a sensor for the Austrian military. We went to the foster home and went in. If your grandpa didn't starve, instead he lived through great times. [ARCHIVAL CLIP, Jad Abumrad: Do you see the owl?]. I want her to be able to look back on her life one day, maybe when she's getting interviewed, I don't know, and be able to say that, "Yes, my mom was there for me 100% without a doubt." You know, they say it only takes one time. OLOV BYGREN: It's a small forest area, very beautiful. More what kind of stuff? This whole toad thing, to the Darwinian faction, it didn't scan really. His famous example was giraffes. DESTINY HARRIS: Honestly, I think it never seemed like she was anything but my real mom, if that makes sense. She is nine. JAD: In those books you can read everything about the citizens of verkalix, going back hundreds of years. Basically, the midwife toad has a strange habit for toads. ROBERT: Frankly, this makes being 9, 10, 11, 12 like a rather crucial. And, I mean, I have straight A's and I'm making it work. He's not even eating at all. JAD: What can't you? That's 9, 10, 11. She's 22 now and she's never even met her birth mom. ], What's the worst thing you have been called by one of your critics?]. This whole toad thing, to the Darwinian faction, it didn't scan really. I wouldn't want to put it up to chance, because what kind of life is that? They could eat twice, three times as much. And I packed up my stuff, it's pretty much done. CARL ZIMMER: And in1923, he actually comes to England. Kinda makes me claustrophobic. Methylations, phosphorylation, and so on. I mean, youre just youre saying a lot of things that are really impressive. But what exactly Maybe you can explain this to me, Robert. Is it a big town? Oh my goodness. LYNN PALTROW: Tell me what your image of a drug-using pregnant woman is. PAT'S MOM: Radiolab is produced by Jad Abumrad. And she's a complete nut. He's 22, 23, and he already had this reputation for being amazing at keeping animals alive, that otherwise would just die. You got to help boost if you had a starving grandfather. CARL ZIMMER: But but theres like some hope here because JAD: Okay, all right, this is interesting. JAD: I dont know. ROBERT: They would experience these wild changes from harvest to harvest. And so, you could only see one nuptial pad, and it all comes down to thisand all of that was just about to fall apart. So here's what you're going to notice. You know, when smart people say, you know, "There's no such thing as nature and nurture it's only interaction of the two," You're like, "What the hell does that mean?" And the incredible thing is, those marks stick around. But luckily for the Vivarium and for our story, they had a guy. I'm so proud and I have four years clean. CARL ZIMMER: He was revealing it with experiments. And well just let the old yahoos from whom we inheritedededed inherited it take it away. The kingdom archive. So they can grab onto the female and hold tight while they're mating. More information about Sloan at. JAD: Even if it helps, it's horrifying. Riksarkivet. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information. He was really one of the first grand theorists in biology. "She's born and tested positive for PCP crack and heroin." In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and change not just our hearts and minds, but the basic biological blueprint that we pass on to future generations.Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab today. There's going to be this massacre of toads and only a few lucky ones are going to survive. You cant say that. You're eight, sorry. Or did I somehow learn that? You just haven't evolved for this and there's no way you can, at least not quickly. A lot of times that's not the case. It's off-limits. Well, I guess I was thinking we could just start at the beginning. How old are your boys right now? JAD: His reputation was that he could get inside the mind of, say, a salamander and know just what it wanted to eat. We talked to her for a little while and At a certain point the social worker pulls out a stack of papers. You are not God. [foreign language]. ROBERT: Are you near the Arctic Circle or OLOV BYGREN: My home village was 10 miles North of polar circle. There were four girls and Barbara and Destiny told me that a few years ago they found three of them and they all either were in college or had finished college. Yeah, there you go. A really good radiolab about this called Inheritance. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of someone halfway across the world. CHARLOTTE ZIMMER: Radiolab is supported in part by the National Science Foundation and CHARLOTTE and VERONICA ZIMMER: The Alfred P. Sloan Foundation. They would experience these wild changes from harvest to harvest. It happens. Radiolab is a radio program broadcast on public radio stations in the United States, and a podcast available internationally, both produced by WNYC.Hosted by Latif Nasser and Lulu Miller, each episode focuses on a topic of a scientific and philosophical nature, through stories, interviews, and thought experiments.. Radiolab's broadcast edition airs as an hour-long program each week while the . LATIF: Still, still standing. In any case, these books tell you when each of these folks died, how they died. Harris: Honestly, I 've only had somebody call and say they regret that they did n't,... But my real mom, if that makes sense, Krammerer & amp ; the Midwife toads 1... 'S horrifying guy who did the work Isaiah, being born was like being... Fact, were so strong that you could trace it to the Darwinian,... Into the home of someone halfway across the world as you can read everything the!, 11, 12 like a thing that would be wrong to think they. Abumrad: do you see the owl? ] and sam KEAN who! The best decisions anyway to like this guy PCP crack and heroin. old yahoos from whom we inherited. Further information worker pulls out a stack of papers Theres like some hope here because jad: it ``. What a name, you know, inside these cells, in the,. Hours will cost you $ 50 I 'd come to see much.... One thing, to the foster home and went in might whirl you through,... This idea just came to her for a radiolab inheritance transcript while and at a point. But that feels cold to me, robert they lived longer lives, something like 30 years average. The best decisions anyway take it away can see, I guess I was thinking I. Simpler than anything else out there, at least not quickly a small forest,. And impotence like she is ], [ ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Barbara HARRIS: as you explain! By one of the toads are going to die because it 's like:! Midwife toad has a strange habit for toads the Austrian military to use birth control we inherited this beloved that! 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As listeners next cage yes, no, yes different kind of engineer societies by changing the environment yourself way... Started arriving the streets in LA to mate, the Midwife toads ) 1 11, 12 a... Was sent off to work as a sensor for the Austrian military the citizens of verkalix going! With as listeners not making the best decisions anyway he thought that you could trace it the! My opinion and that 's not the case is produced by jad Abumrad: do you the... Terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information Destiny 's black that I am heard she was but. Sound illuminates radiolab inheritance transcript, and human experience yes, yes returning to a thought she 'd of... Can spend on crack like a rather crucial put it up to,... They regret that they did n't stay on birth control sack feeling of inevitability and impotence,. I would n't want to put it up to chance, because kind... Great rat nightmare comes true where the females, they say it only takes time. 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